13 Ways to Kill It: An Author Interview with Doug Griffiths
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If you were to ever pass Doug Griffiths in the street, you’d never know you were in the presence of a killer – someone who’s written the literal playbook for draining entire communities of their health and vitality.
Thankfully, Doug uses this knowledge for good — to help build strong and vibrant communities people want to live and prosper in — rather than for ill.
As a professional speaker and CEO of 13 Ways Inc., the main weapon in Doug’s arsenal is 13 Ways to Kill Your Community. Republished with FriesenPress in 2016, Doug estimates to have sold over 70,000 copies of this book (and counting) to community builders across North America. With chapter headings like “Live in the Past,” “Reject Everything New,” and “Deceive Yourself,” Doug uses real-life examples to illustrate the mistakes decision makers in rural communities must avoid if they hope to build a brighter and more prosperous future. 13 Ways to Kill Your Community is directly informed by the decade-plus Doug spent as an Alberta MLA — much of which was spent travelling to and spending time in the communities that his work serves.
As part of our 15th anniversary celebration, we caught up with Doug in between sessions at the third iteration of 13 Ways’ Community Leaders Camp (held in Jasper from October 18–20). With the Rocky Mountains in the background, we learned how he’s sustained the book’s runaway success over the years, his advice to consultants thinking about publishing a book, and why he wishes he was unemployed. Here’s our conversation:
13 Ways isn’t just a book — it’s also the name of your consulting firm. What’s the origin story behind the book and how does it connect to the work you’re doing now?
I grew up in a small town. I went off to university in Edmonton to do big things, but I realized I didn’t really want to be in the city. I liked being in a small town. I got an honours degree in philosophy and I went back to the farm and did the only thing I could: feed cows. What else was I going to do with a philosophy degree?
Later, I became a junior high teacher. I lived in the town between the two separate towns where the school and ranch [respectively] were located. Life was good until I realized all three towns were dying. I started shooting my mouth off about a need for a rural community development strategy for the Province of Alberta. The next thing I knew, I was elected as an MLA and spent 13 years in politics. I served in several senior cabinet portfolios, even ran for leadership to be [Alberta] premier. (I lost — which was a good thing.)
The best job I got, though, was the first one: “Write a rural community development strategy.” I travelled all over and I wrote one. People loved it, but then I realized they were doing the opposite of everything we said they needed to do in the report. They’d say “we need to keep young people in this community, or at least give them a reason to come home, we need to do something.” But when I’d spend time in the community, I heard everyone say, “There’s no hope here. There’s no future. Businesses are closing. If you want success, you’ve got to go off to the city.” Then they wondered why people left. They were actually marketing that the community was horrible and then wondered why the young people they were trying to attract believed them!
After telling people about the report and what they needed to do and watching them do the opposite, I wrote columns in the local newspaper about ways we were sabotaging our own success. Around this time someone from Frontenac Publishers — who only publish poetry books — heard me give the presentation once and said, “This should be a book.” I gathered all my notes and started working on the manuscript; at various points, I had 10, 15, and 18 ways before eventually landing on 13 Ways to Kill Your Community. That first edition was released in 2010.
I found you guys [at FriesenPress] when I decided to rewrite 13 Ways and publish it a second time. I went with FriesenPress, and it was absolutely the easiest, most seamless process I’ve ever used in my life. That second edition came out in 2016, and I still have other publishers from the US calling me all the time wanting to pick up the book. They pitch that they will market the book and increase sales, but sales are good. And if they take the rights to it, they make most of the money but the marketing is really about speaking. I doubt they would increase sales and yet they would profit from it. I have a great system now and I don’t need them, so I always say “no.”
I put my phone number and email in the back of the book. People would read the book, spread it by word of mouth, and contact me to ask, “Could you come and talk?” After I would speak, they would say, “Could you help us?” So I explained what I would do with some seminars, and then we grew into full-fledged consulting. We now actually do between 750,000 and 1.3 million dollars a year in consulting.
Did the manuscript change between 2010 and 2016 when you published the second edition?
Yes, the book changed a lot.
After the first edition, I did a lot of speaking for free — well, sort of. The first book is dedicated to my best friend Coady, who passed away from complications due to epilepsy. I had people donate my speaking fees to his sons' education/trust fund and we raised over $50,000 for them. That’s actually a bit of what spurred me on to speak more.
When I would go somewhere to speak, I would hear stories of what other communities had done. I kept all of those stories. Then I became a Cabinet Minister (Municipal Affairs) and I heard even more. I was inspired to rewrite the book to add in the new stories — it became a virtually new book with over 50% new content.
Did you always want to be an author? What was your experience with writing prior to this book?
Yes — I always wanted to be an author and a writer. I like writing; I mostly wrote poetry before [this book], but I never really knew what I would want to write. I’ve written lots of columns that were in newspapers, but when Frontenac pushed me to turn my speaking material into a book, I really just started to write down the stories that I’d heard about people and communities’ experiences. I’m a good storyteller. I didn't take any formal course or training on writing in particular; the stories in 13 Ways are all factual.
It started with presenting first. The columns and articles were still in the vein of “what we needed to do” versus “how we were sabotaging our success.” It was the presentations where I was telling the stories [that got a great response]. People were laughing and sighing, and then getting embarrassed and even angry. You can take them through the entire series of emotions when you tell stories.
When I got approached by Frontenac, I wrote the book just like I would speak. [The publisher] helped fine tune it a little bit, so it wasn’t quite so verbose. But my strength in speaking and as a writer would be the storytelling — to be able to tell the story in a way that incites those different emotions and gets people excited, inspired, angry at themselves, or angry at other people (sometimes), and a little embarrassed by what we do.
But again, I kind of tripped over all of this. I never named names of the communities I was speaking about — mostly because I didn’t want people to get mad at me. But I discovered that when I didn’t name names, people would come up to me after and say, “Did you write about us? Is that story about us? Because we did exactly that.” I realized if I named names, people would say, “Yeah, yeah, I know that town and they’re idiots.” But when I didn’t, people would come up and go, “Well, we did that. How did you know?” It became a very self-reflective process, I guess.
Then I’d ask them to tell me their story, and I’d hear another story, and another. I just had someone in North Carolina listen to my current “13 Ways to Kill Your Community” presentation, and afterward she said, “90% of the stories you tell now aren’t in the current book, you need to write another 13 Ways to Kill Your Community.” I just need a day off.
How does the 13 Ways book work as a driver for your business?
I’ll tell you that I accidentally stumbled into creating the greatest business model anyone could have ever hoped for.
When readers get to the back of the book and they see my contact information, they call and say, “Hey, we’re having a conference with the Utah City State, we’re having our National Conference in Las Vegas, could you come and speak? Do you do that?” So I send them to [my speaking agent] Jeff. When I speak at a conference or a convention — like the people here at our Community Leaders Camp — they often recommend me for another conference or convention.
People come up to me at conferences with the book bent and pages torn and say, “I got this from so-and-so, who got it from so-and-so, who got it from so-and-so, and we keep passing it along and passing it around.” The paperback has almost 70,000 copies sold, but it seems like somebody always gets the book from somebody else. I’ve joined about 10 book clubs in the US [for discussions on] the book’s last two chapters, just to answer any questions they may have, because people have formed community book clubs to read it.
So, they read the book, call about speaking, and then I show up and speak. Sometimes I’ll do a seminar to show them how to improve communication or how to engage the public or how to overcome any of the issues from one of the chapters. And then they say, “That was really good. Do you do consulting to help our community?” I get paid for the book, for speaking to the group, and for consulting.
It’s quite a fascinating model. My agent says I’m one of the only people in the world that gets paid to come to communities and do business development. I don’t go buy suppers for potential clients — people invite me to supper, hire me, and pay for the meal. I never would’ve imagined it worked, and I didn’t do it on purpose. I’m pretty fortunate.
The book has been incredibly successful over the years, which is a testament to its evergreen content but also its continued relevance to struggling small communities. Did you ever think 13 Ways would continue to resonate all these years later?
I would love to be unemployed, because that would mean every community is on the pathway to success. I would wish nothing more than that.
I see how [channel sales are going with FriesenPress], but every year in December, I order a thousand books from you guys, and by the next December, they’re all gone. Some I give away, some I sell. I’m about to put in my third order for this year because I’ve gone through two orders of a thousand books. I am out.
I don’t know what’s changing — it’s almost like it’s growing. Maybe it’s the new speaking tour and reaching out more in the US, but you’re right — it’s an evergreen book.
Do you have any marketing tips for other B2B self-published authors who may be reading this? Have you done anything that’s really connected with your target audience that would be relevant to share?
I think the reason why I’ve continued to be successful is the speaking and doing presentations. Books get put on shelves and then they don’t always get pulled down. Every time I speak at conferences — in small communities and statewide and national ones — the passion comes across. That’s the number one thing I hear: “It is hard not to be inspired by you.” And that makes people order the book. They pass it on to their friends, their friends read it, they’re inspired, and they make sure they come and hear me speak.
I know not every writer is great at speaking, but I’ve been to a lot of author readings at a library or bookstore where they do a book signing and they read a segment from their book. My advice would be to put the book down and tell them why the book is important and what it means to you. Why you believe in what you wrote is a powerful story. Don’t sell a page of the book — sell the inspiration behind the book.
You mentioned needing time to write the next edition 13 Ways — what’s the status on that manuscript? And are there any other book projects in the hopper?
I have multiple books on the go. One of these days, I need to get one done. I’ve got the stories I tell for [the next] 13 Ways; it could be a third edition, and it might be really popular too.
I’m also working on converting our Seven Essentials of Success process into a new book. Our Seven Essentials process is what we at 13 Ways use to help communities find their own pathway to success. We guide communities through the Seven Essentials of Success when we work with them; after working with so many communities, I have had people and business owners tell me that those same essentials for success apply in life and business, too. I haven't finished the manuscript yet, but I’m working on it.
Another book that I’ve got a lot of notes on is the Re-Rise of Rural Communities, which focuses on all the anger that’s out there right now. There are so many communities that feel like the world’s been taken from them. They took away coal, they took away gas; the province or state or federal government or the economy took something away from me. That’s a “revolution” mindset, because you feel like something’s been taken and you want to go to war to get it back. That’s the state of politics in Canada and in the United States right now: the war between the Conservatives and the Liberals, or the Republicans and the Democrats.
When I was a MLA, I was a Progressive Conservative and I used to go have beer and wings with the New Democrat [representative]. I liked him better than most of my caucus! We didn’t agree on everything, but we agreed on a lot, and we had civil conversations. That civility is gone, and this mindset that a revolution is what we need — no, we need a renaissance. Communities have a chance to rebuild and revitalize themselves for an entirely new world that didn’t exist a hundred years ago. Online education, online healthcare, new technologies, new job opportunities, working from home; the world has transformed so much. We can’t go back to the seventies or eighties — sorry, I’m passionate about that one.
Between those three manuscripts, I’ve got lots of writing projects on the go. I just need to sit down and finish one of them!
Do you have any other advice — publishing, writing, or otherwise — for other consultants out there who may be wondering if a book is a fit for their business?
Because there are a lot of books out there, my advice would be to write the book for yourself, period. If you’re going to write it, don’t write it hoping it’s going to be a national bestseller or it’s going to be hugely successful. When people ask me, “Should I write a book?” and I say, “Well, if you’re going to write one, write it for yourself. Write it with all the passion that you feel about the subject, and then go through and print it, publish it, do all that stuff. But [if you write with passion] you won’t be disappointed if nobody reads it.” And it’ll be a better book. If you write it anticipating what everybody wants to read, you’ll soften your message.
I was pointed in my book. I’m going to confess, I told people I was so frustrated with the behaviour of many communities I went to that I actually wrote the book more like therapy. Some of the phrases started off with, “Well, if these idiots quit telling young people to leave town, maybe they would stick around, but they keep telling them there’s no hope and no future. Stop doing that.” Otherwise, I might’ve said, “We really need to consider how young people feel about the situation when you’re talking about how it motivates them.” That’s not as effective, is it?
Don’t dance around things — be pointed, be direct, and say what needs to be said. I think you’ll find people appreciate it more, it has more value for people, and you’ll feel better because you didn’t hold anything back.
What are you most proud of with respect to this book and the impact it’s made?
I’m most proud of how many people have been inspired by the book. People have read the book and gone out and done positive things in their community.
We’ve created a podcast, Creating Community by 13 Ways, and all we do on that podcast is interview. I always emphasize success in progress. Not communities that are successful (because you’re never actually done) but just in progress of having success. We interview them and find out what they’ve done and share those success stories.
People do read the book and say, “What do I do now? How do I overcome this?” And so we find communities around North America that have overcome those issues, and then share their story. I am so proud of the improvements that are made to communities. The fact that people are inspired to go do something different by the book, I never actually imagined it would have that impact, so I’m excited about that.
We’re celebrating 15 years in the publishing industry, and look forward to at least 15 more. What do you hope the future brings for 13 Ways Inc.?
My plan is to have a few more books out focused on community building and helping people improve their lives. I’m going to continue to do some speaking, and I imagine the team will probably grow a bit. I don’t want to be a big firm that just is about cycling projects through. If it grows, it’s because we found somebody that understands the philosophy of 13 Ways and loves communities as much as we do, and then gets to work. We hope 13 Ways will grow in a way that finds the right people, because we turn away a lot of work.
I don’t want to do work for volume or to make money, I want to make communities better. I don’t see a lot changing — maybe a little bit of growth, but just continuing to do amazing work.
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13 Ways To Kill Your Community available now.
Visit 13waysinc.com to learn more.
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